On the Harassment of WH Members

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On the Harassment of WH Members

#520275

Post by Trekboy008 » Saturday April 29, 2017, 14:20 EDT

As many of you know, there has been an uptick recently in members of this site harassing other members, either publicly or via PM or an offsite chat service. Although not strictly limited to male members harassing female members, it is not unreasonable to say that the overwhelming majority of the cases fit that mold. Regardless of the gender identity of the members involved, harassment in any form is not acceptable behavior.

There are a few broad categories of behavior that fall into the definition of “harassment” for this site:
  1. Not taking “no” for an answer: If you contact someone asking to chat or for pics or what have you and the person declines and you contact them again, you are harassing that person. No response is the same as a “no” response, meaning that if you do not receive any sort of response to your request, treat it as though the person said “no” and don’t repeatedly pester them for a response; it is annoying and I guarantee that it won’t get you what you want.
  2. Sending unsolicited explicit content to a person: Don’t be that person who sends a dick pic (or the equivalent) as your way of saying hello. It’s not endearing; it’s not cute; it’s not welcome.
  3. Threatening, degrading, or hostile behavior: This can often be related to Category 1, but doesn’t always have to be. Calling someone derogatory names, especially when you’ve been told not to, threatening or blackmailing a person, etc. is harassment and will not be tolerated.
Punishment for harassment will depend on the exact conduct at issue, but repeated conduct or particularly egregious conduct will result in a permanent ban from the site. You have been warned.

Please note that the mods, myself included, are neither all-seeing nor all-knowing, so we cannot act on harassment if it is not reported. If the harassment is on the site, please use the “Report a Post/PM” feature. If it occurred off site, please PM a mod and include screenshots or any other evidence you may have. I would ask that when you PM a mod to report harassment, you CC either me or Butter on it (Butter has been instrumental in assisting me in preparing a response to this situation) so that we are aware of what’s going on.

Put very simply (and bluntly), treat other members with respect and we won’t have a problem. Do not act like an entitled brat. Other members do not owe you anything and you are not entitled to anything from them (even a response to a simple hello). It does not matter if the other member has sent you pics in the past or interacted with someone else in the way you’re trying to interact with them or anything like that. You are not entitled to their attention or their response. If you are incapable of grasping this concept, then you do not belong on this site.

Because this situation overwhelmingly involves female members of this site, we are looking to add at least one, if not more, female members to the mod team. If you are interested (or if you know someone who would be interested), please PM me.

Lastly, on behalf of myself and the rest of the WH mod team, I offer my deepest apologies for the delay in our response to this trend. It has been bubbling under the surface for some time now, and our failure to adequately respond to/address it is inexcusable. All I can say is that we will do our best to improve on this going forward.

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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520295

Post by ChaosReacon » Saturday April 29, 2017, 19:21 EDT

From the way this is written, I have no objections to this and thank you for making it clear that a double standard is not ok.

Keep up the great work
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520299

Post by wedgiefrmluckyfetish » Saturday April 29, 2017, 21:13 EDT

It is always good to delineate rules of behavior, especially since the historical paradigm of harassment on wedgie fetish sites has been males harassing females. It has, as I understand it in the past, caused some females to leave wedgie fetish sites because of harassment. You've always done good work keeping this board going. And initiatives like this are always great. Keep up the good work.
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Also, I wrote a story here, but after the site went down a while ago it got compromised. So here is YWNR on LF: http://luckyfetish.com/forum/index.php?topic=5922.0 Also find it on my DA. And I wrote a f/m story for the user kidbird, It's unofficial name is "Allison and Taylor": https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9hZht ... Rhd2M/view
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520303

Post by selfwedgie13 » Saturday April 29, 2017, 22:13 EDT

Glad to know the mods are doing something about this, and making sure problems like this get dealt with properly. If I might suggest just one thing, though, if a member gets reported for harassment, perhaps contact them to get their side of the story before taking action. While the rules of behavior outlined here are quite clear, misunderstandings are still possible, and I know that some cases may come from a simple misunderstanding getting blown out of proportion. Still, glad to know that problems like this are being taken care of and thank you for letting everyone on this site know that this sort of behavior is not acceptable.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520306

Post by S.A.W » Sunday April 30, 2017, 00:33 EDT

Right. How will this be regularly enforced. You may say that report to the mods, yet it seems that many mods do not actually take action. Butter is not in chat enough to see public harassment, and in regard to PM harassment, many members opt out to leave, instead of reporting it. An actually block communications feature will be nice, which I know you're already trying to find third party software to do this.

I know that in order for two notorious shitheads to leave the site, I had to pull something that resembled a public lynch mob in chat, calling them out. One of those members formally left, and the other one just doesn't log in. That move got me much disapproval from mods, but much gratitude from many members. And it seemed that that had to be done in order for anything to get done, because even though the mods say they want to fix this problem, I see little action actually being done. If this because you guys aren't around enough to see it happen, then you need to improve the mod team.

Im not trying to bitch at you, I've just lost very good friends from this site because of this, and they all felt that nothing was being done to stop or prevent it
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520310

Post by selfwedgie13 » Sunday April 30, 2017, 01:03 EDT

Unfortunately, no one can force people to PM the mods if they feel they're being harassed, and the mods can do nothing if they're not informed of it, but public shaming of members is never the right way to handle any situation. I spoke with Red Nerd the day after you tore into him on the chat, as well as someone who felt he was harassing her. Based on my understanding, I'm convinced it was mostly a misunderstanding that could have been prevented with proper action and communication, but instead you opted to publicly shame two members with no real evidence that they were guilty of harassing any members and drove them off. That makes you the bad guy from where I'm standing. And if members are being harassed and they tell someone else (not a mod) about it, tell them to report it to the mods, or tell the mods which members are telling you about this so they can take proper action, but don't go tearing into people just because someone else tells you they're being harassed. It's not your job to do that. Let the mods handle the discipline on the site. That's their job.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520315

Post by Butter » Sunday April 30, 2017, 04:52 EDT

S.A.W wrote:Right. How will this be regularly enforced. You may say that report to the mods, yet it seems that many mods do not actually take action. Butter is not in chat enough to see public harassment, and in regard to PM harassment, many members opt out to leave, instead of reporting it.
Here's my point of view on the matter. Regular enforcement can only be done with help from other members. in regards to public harassment in Mchat, I suggest doing what Andrew did and taking screenshot evidence of the harassment and then PM'ing a mod about it, or if you feel that takes too long just note down the time and date this takes place in chat and a mod will look through the Mchat Archive to find it, and then decide the best course of action against it. As you said I am not on all the time to monitor the chat, therefore it's only with your help I can be informed of the issues taking place and deal with it.

As for members leaving instead of reporting PM's, that is their own choice to make, however reporting PM's would be the better option in the long run as it makes sure that person doesn't try to harass any other members without it being dealt with.

As for the Mods taking action, all harassment I've been informed about, I've dealt with. I cannot speak for the other moderators, however we will be having some talks about it soon to see what is happening in regards to no action taking place. It could just be a mod rarely comes on the site anymore, hence the 0 action, or a mod is deliberately doing nothing for whatever reason. Either way we are going to find out and fix it. Hope this answers a few of your questions SAW :)
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520322

Post by Trekboy008 » Sunday April 30, 2017, 08:57 EDT

S.A.W wrote:Right. How will this be regularly enforced. You may say that report to the mods, yet it seems that many mods do not actually take action. Butter is not in chat enough to see public harassment, and in regard to PM harassment, many members opt out to leave, instead of reporting it. An actually block communications feature will be nice, which I know you're already trying to find third party software to do this.
This is why I am asking that people either PM me and/or Butter directly or cc us on a PM to other mods, as we are among the more active mods on the site. As I mentioned in my initial post, we are not omnipresent, and we rely, to a large degree, on other members bringing things to our attention. It is, admittedly, not a perfect system, but it is the best we can do.
selfwedgie13 wrote:If I might suggest just one thing, though, if a member gets reported for harassment, perhaps contact them to get their side of the story before taking action. While the rules of behavior outlined here are quite clear, misunderstandings are still possible, and I know that some cases may come from a simple misunderstanding getting blown out of proportion.
This is why, in general, an initial infraction will result in a warning or something similar. Of course, if the conduct is clearly beyond a simple misunderstanding, more severe action might be taken.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520326

Post by S.A.W » Sunday April 30, 2017, 17:18 EDT

selfwedgie13 wrote:
Sunday April 30, 2017, 01:03 EDT
Unfortunately, no one can force people to PM the mods if they feel they're being harassed, and the mods can do nothing if they're not informed of it, but public shaming of members is never the right way to handle any situation. I spoke with Red Nerd the day after you tore into him on the chat, as well as someone who felt he was harassing her. Based on my understanding, I'm convinced it was mostly a misunderstanding that could have been prevented with proper action and communication, but instead you opted to publicly shame two members with no real evidence that they were guilty of harassing any members and drove them off. That makes you the bad guy from where I'm standing. And if members are being harassed and they tell someone else (not a mod) about it, tell them to report it to the mods, or tell the mods which members are telling you about this so they can take proper action, but don't go tearing into people just because someone else tells you they're being harassed. It's not your job to do that. Let the mods handle the discipline on the site. That's their job.
I still do not apologize for what I did. Having 10+ people telling me the same story is enough for me. Whether or not I was the "bad guy" is irrelevant to me, because what I did got the job done, and the thanks of many members..

I understand that the mods want to keep the site fair, but this isn't the US legal system. This is a site where they absolute power, however benevolent they may be. A whole case based on hard evidence, Eye witness testimonies, testimonies from the victim etc etc, should not have to be built up for action to begin to be taken, because you're just not going to get that on an online fetish forum
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520329

Post by Trekboy008 » Sunday April 30, 2017, 18:40 EDT

I am not going to hold this site to the standards of a criminal justice system, but I am also not going to let individual members take things into their own hands. You could just as easily have come to me with the evidence you had to convince you to do something and asked me to take official action.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520336

Post by Andrew » Sunday April 30, 2017, 20:55 EDT

Weird as it may be, I side with Saw a bit on this one. And I feel as though I'm repeating myself as I say this now. But...all the rules in the world do not mean a thing if it is not properly enforced by mods. And even though this is strongly worded, as of this very moment, I still don't believe that much will change based on this announcement alone. Whether that be from harassment not being reported as mods would like, or mods receive those harassment claims but do not take action. Part of my lack of confidence is because any of the mods who consider themselves 'active' (Butter, Frank, etc.) are only relatively active these days and, as a result, miss out on a lot in the moment. We all got lives, I get it. But still. The fact remains that enough female members that a good amount of us have gotten to know well, have either left here or gotten extremely pissed off because they felt lack of leadership on this site let them down in a huge way. That falls on the mods just as much as it does the members in the end.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520338

Post by Trekboy008 » Sunday April 30, 2017, 21:28 EDT

I am not trying to absolve the mods of any responsibility on this issue, but this is a volunteer gig that we do in our spare time. I personally try to get on here at least once a day to, if nothing else, check and see if there are any pressing issues that need to be dealt with (member complaints and the like). The unfortunate reality right now is that I do not know everything going on on this site (truthfully, I probably don't know most things going on on this site right now, so I rely on other people to alert me to situations that need attention. Now, if people who are more active/involved with the site are interested in taking on a more official role, they should talk to me.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520339

Post by Andrew » Sunday April 30, 2017, 21:39 EDT

At the end of the day, it still seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. As I said, no one's denying that everyone here has lives. We don't need to keep talking around that point. However...the very start of this post indicates that the sole need for this change/stern wording of the rules is because of what's been taking place only as of recently. This isn't a new issue. You don't have to have a vagina to see that the overall atmosphere of this site has sucked for quite some time. I reiterate this point because this is what annoys me during this whole dialogue over these last couple of weeks with Butter and now here. It's almost like mods are subtly admitting that they've been blind as to how much of an issue this has ever really been.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520347

Post by Butter » Monday May 01, 2017, 04:23 EDT

I'm not admitting anything on behalf of the other mods, but I'm admitting for me, yes, I've been blind to most of this stuff. People point me towards a issue and I'll deal with it, but until then I'll just assume everything is fine and I dont need to warn/ban anyone for whatever reason. That's what we have the report buttons for. PLEASE use them.

I know you and SAW are unhappy with the current state of the site, so please tell us what we can do. Feel free to give us suggestions of how we can make the site better, even if you think we need to remove all the current mods and get brand new ones. And this goes for the harassed members too, tell us what you want for the site to be improved so that you get to feel safer, as I/we clearly are doing a shit job at that at the moment. Communication is key here, that's all there is to it.
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Re: On the Harassment of WH Members

#520350

Post by DesuzaKiddo » Monday May 01, 2017, 10:30 EDT

Andrew wrote:
Sunday April 30, 2017, 20:55 EDT
Weird as it may be, I side with Saw a bit on this one.
While I appreciate the more active members making an effort to help polic the community, lord knows I'm not on here enough to do it myself or mod in anyway, I cannot support public shaming, especially without asking the person in question fiesta boot it or trying to get a mod to intervene. Not only does this basically completely miss the point of having a mod to begin with, but it can lead to very nasty situations. I had a good friend who was shamed out of a forum because he was being flirtatious and one of the memebers (not the one he was flirting with mind you , that member later came back online to find this all happened and was upset my friend had been attacked as she didn't mind what he had said) spread misinformation to get him kicked out.

That said, I'm not saying anything about the reasons for past incidents on this site as I was not here for them; however, I will say that mods, especially on a forum as big as this, need the help of its members to police itself. With that in mind, using public shaming, especially without contacting a mod or asking the person in question for their side of the story, means you circumvent the entire mod process and role. Whether or not they've failed you before, there is a process for a reason- if you take such issue with their handling then talk to them about that handling over pms, kind of like you're doing in this very thread and try to positively enact change- or you can always do what some people have done and leave. I'm not saying either way is more correct, just that making sure there is no mob rule on the site is the reason mods exist at all. The point is that you're here as a guest, as is everyone else, on a site run by volunteers. And as a guest, there are certain rules or processes everyone is meant to follow, and contacting a mod for help is one of them.

And as a side note, is it an issue if they admit they were blind to it? Sure, you can argue they shouldn't have been, but regardless they are aware of it now, quite clearly, and are trying to take steps to rectify the issue. That sounds like progress to me.
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